This is a place for students to post their thoughts to journal topics.
Thursday, December 10, 2015
Using your reading notes, post a few items that you would like to share with the class. Respond to at least eight peers' posts. Finally, record thoughts from the class discussion from this blog on the third column of your Part II work.
I connected Kurtz to Gatsby from The Great Gatsby because everyone seems to have an opinion about both characters before meeting them. But these two characters differ because I think when Marlow meets Kurtz, his assumption of him will turn out to be true.
When Marlow overhears the two men talking about Kurtz and they say "Military-post-doctor-two hundred miles-quite alone now-unavoidable delays-nine months-no news-strange rumors" (p.101), you can compare Kurtz to Gatsby, based on the fact that surrounding Kurtz's existence is secrets, mystery, and rumors. This gives Kurtz's character a special presence in the book, as there is alot of buildup to Marlow's meeting with Kurtz.
I liked how Marlow was in some disbelief that civilized people could spiral out of control like Kurtz did. This is shown in the quote,"It was unearthly, and the men were - No, they were not inhuman."
@Nathanmahn I also like how Marlow describes his disbelief. In this quote it shows his great descriptive words. "The earth seemed unearthy. We are accustomed to look upon the shackled form of a conquered monster, but there- there you could at a thing monstrous and free."
I am starting to see how the natives are looking less like savages and more like a normal person. While these people definitely are savages because of their cannibalism, they aren't that different than your everyday person. Everyone has cultures and traditions that they follow and since theirs is cannibalism, they don't know any different.
On page 116 the quote, "I looked at them with a swift quickening of interest - not because it occurred to me I might be eaten by them before very long, though I own to you that just then I perceived - in a new light, as it were - how unwholesome the pilgrims looked, and I hoped, yes, I positively hoped, that my aspect was not so - what shall I say? - so - unappetizing: a touch of fantastic vanity which fitted well with the dream sensation that pervaded all my days at a time," interested me. In the passage this quote is in, Marlow is thinking about the cannibals on the steamboat with him and he admits to himself that he would rather look appetizing to them than unappetizing even if it could pose a danger to his life. This shows the vain, or darker, side of humans.
I like how Marlow says "Principles won't do. Acquisitions, clothes, pretty rags- rags that would fly off at the first good shake." Again he used great descriptive words to get his point across.
@Burke I believe Conrad tries to show this, especially in the swamp scene. By describing the details about the natives, he is trying to say that they are all people with light and dark sides, no matter where they are from.
@BurkeEstes I completely agree with you. Many of the superior cultures feels their way of life is the best and that everyone should adapt in order to have a sense of tranquility. This scenario is still evident in society today.
@Jennifer this is a great point! I agree, it shows that even if they are in a dangerous and uncomfortable situation, this seems to be his main thought!
@Tyti good point! I have noticed while reading this book that Conrad uses many descriptive words that show detail and allow the readers to fully understand the points he is trying to make.
@ Tytianna Floyd Conrad's descriptive use of wording helps to create a picture in the reader's head. This writing style is evident through out Heart of Darkness and that quote is a good example of it!
@TytiannaFloyd I agree with your quote (I like how Marlow says "Principles won't do. Acquisitions, clothes, pretty rags- rags that would fly off at the first good shake." Again he used great descriptive words to get his point across). Throughout the book Conrad uses vivid imagery that the reader can easily picture the character's surroundings and how they interact with their surroundings.
@Nathan I wasn't surprised that Marlow was shocked by this. The new location, environment, and population they are in is so different than what the Europeans are used to. The Europeans assume that they are the only "civilized" people here, and they think that the natives are the savage ones.
I think western society even today is still very guilty of trying to adapt other cultures to western ideals. Do you think this will ever stop? Or will the worlds dominant culture always attempt to influence smaller ones?
@Tyti I think what they mean by vengeance is not literal; I think he is saying that as though it is from the native's pov. He could be saying that that is what the man thinks is going to happen, because the furnace is a foreign object to him, and he is not sure what it can do. He may think that the noise of the furnace just sounds as though it wants to "take a terrible vengeance".
The quote on pages 116-117 made me stop and think about the European view of the natives. "And these chaps, too, had no earthly reason for any kind of scruple. Restraint! I would just as soon have expected restraint from a hyena prowling amongst the corpses of a battlefield." In this quote it shows that the Europeans believed that the natives were completely unrestrained and had no moral compass. However, on the steamboat they did not attack any of the crew even though they were starving. This shows that they did have a sense of right and wrong.
I like how he describes going up the river, he says " going up that river travelling back to the earliest beginnings of the world, when vegetation rioted on the earth and the big trees were kings". @ErOne
"Ugly. Yes, it was ugly enough; but if you were man enough you would admit to yourself that there was in you just the faintest trace of a response to the terrible frankness of that noise,..." (p.109)
"The mind of man is capable of anything because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future..." (p.109)
I like how he starts of as if what these people are doing is uncivilized, but along the way he admits that he felt a slight response. showing even a civilized man still feels some savage responses deep down from the past.
@Luke I think it depends on the culture the dominant culture is trying to influence. Some can become influenced easier than others, and some ignore it and stick to their own ideals.
@LukeIngle I agree with Nathan. There will always be a culture thinks their way of life is superior and not acknowledging other views of life and culture.
@Cody good connection. When is says "The mind of man is capable of anything because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future" I think he is trying to convey how anyone can become influenced by the culture and environment around them and it is possible for us all to go a little crazy. YEAH CODY
@clairemacrae Regardless of whether or not their attempts at influence succeed, do you think dominant cultures will always try to influence smaller ones?
@ Luke Ingle I think that a dominant culture will always try to influence smaller cultures that their way is the right way. I can hope that it will change in time. However, western cultures are still trying to influence smaller cultures today, even with the easier acceptance of other cultures that the world has now.
@Luke Honestly, I am not sure. It has happened a lot across time, and it may continue in the future, but it depends on who is trying to influence who and for what reason. It is hard to say, especially in the modern times now and how many different ways one culture can influence another.
@ Cody I agree. This goes back to what the class discussed in the part one fish bowl. Even civilized men have a savage part in themselves that is hidden by society
@David I agree. I think he is showing that yes, they have different ways of living their day to day lives, but under all of that we all have the same emotions.
I can draw a lot of parallels between Belgian colonization in the Congo (really colonization anywhere), and the American Invasion of Iraq in 2003. Trying to export our way of life to areas not used to it can create way more problems than expected.
I think that it was bad when Kurtz said to "exterminate all the brutes" because they worship him and it seems like he does not care about them at all which is not good for the natives of Congo. -marshall
@ David Honeycutt I agree. Conrad is starting to show that the European view of the natives is not completely correct. He is doing this using Marlow's experiences with them.
@ Unknown (Marshall) Kurtz does have a drastic view change of the natives in the report. I wonder why that is. Did he have a bad experience with them or did the wildness of the Congo get to him?
@Cam I mean in a way, but I think the way Conrad is describing the Europeans and their intentions and how, in a way, they are the savages is supposed to be understood.
@BurkeEstes I completely agree with you. And i also agree with @Cameron comment to your post about these are regular people but just with a different culture.
The idea of savagery versus civilization becomes somewhat blurred towards the end of the book. Even though Marlow started to view the savages as more human, he still didn't believe they were civilized at all.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI connected Kurtz to Gatsby from The Great Gatsby because everyone seems to have an opinion about both characters before meeting them. But these two characters differ because I think when Marlow meets Kurtz, his assumption of him will turn out to be true.
ReplyDeleteWhen Marlow overhears the two men talking about Kurtz and they say "Military-post-doctor-two hundred miles-quite alone now-unavoidable delays-nine months-no news-strange rumors" (p.101), you can compare Kurtz to Gatsby, based on the fact that surrounding Kurtz's existence is secrets, mystery, and rumors. This gives Kurtz's character a special presence in the book, as there is alot of buildup to Marlow's meeting with Kurtz.
ReplyDeleteI liked how Marlow was in some disbelief that civilized people could spiral out of control like Kurtz did. This is shown in the quote,"It was unearthly, and the men were - No, they were not inhuman."
ReplyDelete@Nathanmahn I also like how Marlow describes his disbelief. In this quote it shows his great descriptive words. "The earth seemed unearthy. We are accustomed to look upon the shackled form of a conquered monster, but there- there you could at a thing monstrous and free."
ReplyDeleteI am starting to see how the natives are looking less like savages and more like a normal person. While these people definitely are savages because of their cannibalism, they aren't that different than your everyday person. Everyone has cultures and traditions that they follow and since theirs is cannibalism, they don't know any different.
ReplyDeleteOn page 116 the quote, "I looked at them with a swift quickening of interest - not because it occurred to me I might be eaten by them before very long, though I own to you that just then I perceived - in a new light, as it were - how unwholesome the pilgrims looked, and I hoped, yes, I positively hoped, that my aspect was not so - what shall I say? - so - unappetizing: a touch of fantastic vanity which fitted well with the dream sensation that pervaded all my days at a time," interested me. In the passage this quote is in, Marlow is thinking about the cannibals on the steamboat with him and he admits to himself that he would rather look appetizing to them than unappetizing even if it could pose a danger to his life. This shows the vain, or darker, side of humans.
ReplyDeleteI like how Marlow says "Principles won't do. Acquisitions, clothes, pretty rags- rags that would fly off at the first good shake." Again he used great descriptive words to get his point across.
ReplyDelete@CameronHoward I agree with this, good connection!
ReplyDelete@Burke I believe Conrad tries to show this, especially in the swamp scene. By describing the details about the natives, he is trying to say that they are all people with light and dark sides, no matter where they are from.
ReplyDelete@ClaireMacrae I like the quote you used for this example, good connection!
ReplyDelete@Cameron omg same connection!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you @burkeestes the way the natives are living is just their way of life. It is their tradition and it how they were raised.
ReplyDelete@jenniferCoffey I agree with you that the authors style really highlights the darker side of all humans
ReplyDelete@Tyti I agree with this example and also caught on to the description words Conrad used.
ReplyDelete@BurkeEstes I completely agree with you. Many of the superior cultures feels their way of life is the best and that everyone should adapt in order to have a sense of tranquility. This scenario is still evident in society today.
ReplyDelete@Cameron I really never made that connection but looking back on it now, there is some similarities there.
ReplyDelete@Jennifer this is a great point! I agree, it shows that even if they are in a dangerous and uncomfortable situation, this seems to be his main thought!
ReplyDelete@BurkeEstes I agree with your comment because they don't know any better because it is a part of their culture.
ReplyDelete@ClaireMacrae when two great minds think alike.
ReplyDelete@CameronH Good connection. I also think Marlows assumption will be true about Kurtz.
ReplyDelete@Claire yes thank you for backing my post with some evidence, this shows how Conrad feels that there is darkness inside every human.
ReplyDelete@Tyti good point! I have noticed while reading this book that Conrad uses many descriptive words that show detail and allow the readers to fully understand the points he is trying to make.
ReplyDelete@JenniferCoffey I like this quote and I agree with the fact that this shows the darker side of humans
ReplyDelete@Tytianna yes I think his assumption will be true as well.
ReplyDelete@ Tytianna Floyd Conrad's descriptive use of wording helps to create a picture in the reader's head. This writing style is evident through out Heart of Darkness and that quote is a good example of it!
ReplyDelete@TytiannaFloyd I agree with your quote (I like how Marlow says "Principles won't do. Acquisitions, clothes, pretty rags- rags that would fly off at the first good shake." Again he used great descriptive words to get his point across). Throughout the book Conrad uses vivid imagery that the reader can easily picture the character's surroundings and how they interact with their surroundings.
ReplyDeleteGreat connection @ClaireM. There is great buildup to Marlow meeting Kurtz.
ReplyDelete@Nathan I wasn't surprised that Marlow was shocked by this. The new location, environment, and population they are in is so different than what the Europeans are used to. The Europeans assume that they are the only "civilized" people here, and they think that the natives are the savage ones.
ReplyDeletefriends...PG 110 What is Vengeance?
ReplyDelete@JenniferCoffey The theme of darkness is very evident I agree.
ReplyDelete@Tyti Vengeance is violent revenge. In the book, it is showing the evil in humans.
ReplyDeleteI think western society even today is still very guilty of trying to adapt other cultures to western ideals. Do you think this will ever stop? Or will the worlds dominant culture always attempt to influence smaller ones?
ReplyDelete@LukeIngle I think things will stay the same and the dominant will influence the smaller one. Good point brought up.
ReplyDelete@Tyti I think what they mean by vengeance is not literal; I think he is saying that as though it is from the native's pov. He could be saying that that is what the man thinks is going to happen, because the furnace is a foreign object to him, and he is not sure what it can do. He may think that the noise of the furnace just sounds as though it wants to "take a terrible vengeance".
ReplyDeleteThe quote on pages 116-117 made me stop and think about the European view of the natives. "And these chaps, too, had no earthly reason for any kind of scruple. Restraint! I would just as soon have expected restraint from a hyena prowling amongst the corpses of a battlefield." In this quote it shows that the Europeans believed that the natives were completely unrestrained and had no moral compass. However, on the steamboat they did not attack any of the crew even though they were starving. This shows that they did have a sense of right and wrong.
ReplyDeleteI like how he describes going up the river, he says " going up that river travelling back to the earliest beginnings of the world, when vegetation rioted on the earth and the big trees were kings". @ErOne
ReplyDelete"Ugly. Yes, it was ugly enough; but if you were man enough you would admit to yourself that there was in you just the faintest trace of a response to the terrible frankness of that noise,..." (p.109)
ReplyDelete"The mind of man is capable of anything because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future..." (p.109)
I like how he starts of as if what these people are doing is uncivilized, but along the way he admits that he felt a slight response. showing even a civilized man still feels some savage responses deep down from the past.
@Luke I think it depends on the culture the dominant culture is trying to influence. Some can become influenced easier than others, and some ignore it and stick to their own ideals.
ReplyDelete@JenniferCoffey I also think they did have some sort of a sense of right and wrong.
ReplyDelete@LukeIngle I agree with Nathan. There will always be a culture thinks their way of life is superior and not acknowledging other views of life and culture.
ReplyDelete@Jennifer, I agree with your connection.
ReplyDelete@Cody I agree. A person could have savage characteristics based on the opinions of other people.
ReplyDelete@Cody good connection. When is says "The mind of man is capable of anything because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future" I think he is trying to convey how anyone can become influenced by the culture and environment around them and it is possible for us all to go a little crazy. YEAH CODY
ReplyDelete@clairemacrae Regardless of whether or not their attempts at influence succeed, do you think dominant cultures will always try to influence smaller ones?
ReplyDelete@ Luke Ingle I think that a dominant culture will always try to influence smaller cultures that their way is the right way. I can hope that it will change in time. However, western cultures are still trying to influence smaller cultures today, even with the easier acceptance of other cultures that the world has now.
ReplyDelete@lukeIngle I think that dominate cultures will continue to try to influence smaller ones and have them adapt to their way of living.
ReplyDeleteI think the author is starting to make the natives seem more like regular people instead of "savages"
ReplyDelete@Luke Honestly, I am not sure. It has happened a lot across time, and it may continue in the future, but it depends on who is trying to influence who and for what reason. It is hard to say, especially in the modern times now and how many different ways one culture can influence another.
ReplyDelete@ Cody I agree. This goes back to what the class discussed in the part one fish bowl. Even civilized men have a savage part in themselves that is hidden by society
ReplyDelete@David I agree. I think he is showing that yes, they have different ways of living their day to day lives, but under all of that we all have the same emotions.
ReplyDeleteI can draw a lot of parallels between Belgian colonization in the Congo (really colonization anywhere), and the American Invasion of Iraq in 2003. Trying to export our way of life to areas not used to it can create way more problems than expected.
ReplyDeleteI think that it was bad when Kurtz said to "exterminate all the brutes" because they worship him and it seems like he does not care about them at all which is not good for the natives of Congo.
ReplyDelete-marshall
@jennifer That's a good point, This kinda how they automatically just thought they were savages without giving their culture a chance.
ReplyDelete@Luke lets not stray from the book
ReplyDelete@David yes that is totally what I was thinking.
ReplyDelete@ David Honeycutt I agree. Conrad is starting to show that the European view of the natives is not completely correct. He is doing this using Marlow's experiences with them.
ReplyDelete@Luke yes the dominant culture has always, and always will try to influence others
ReplyDelete@LukeIngle uh oh......politics.
ReplyDelete@Cody that quote really speaks to how quickly people can go from civilized to a savage.
ReplyDelete@Claire yes I'm with you on that one
ReplyDelete@Cameron @Claire I'm just saying I see similarities between this book and a recent historical event. I'm not trying to get political.
ReplyDelete@ Unknown (Marshall) Kurtz does have a drastic view change of the natives in the report. I wonder why that is. Did he have a bad experience with them or did the wildness of the Congo get to him?
ReplyDelete@Luke I gotcha! :)
ReplyDeleteHey guys do you think the description of being savages or civilized is a personal opinion?
ReplyDelete@LukeIngle Gotcha.
ReplyDelete@ Luke Ingle There are many examples you can use to relate what is going on in the book to what is happening in the world today.
ReplyDelete@Cam I mean in a way, but I think the way Conrad is describing the Europeans and their intentions and how, in a way, they are the savages is supposed to be understood.
ReplyDelete@BurkeEstes I completely agree with you. And i also agree with @Cameron comment to your post about these are regular people but just with a different culture.
ReplyDelete@Cameron I agree
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of savagery versus civilization becomes somewhat blurred towards the end of the book. Even though Marlow started to view the savages as more human, he still didn't believe they were civilized at all.
ReplyDelete@ Cameron Howard yes
ReplyDelete@Cody I think you brought up some good points when talking about savagery and civilization
ReplyDelete@jenniferCoffey I agree this book really shows the dark side within us.
ReplyDelete@jenniferCoffey I agree, that showed that the savages had some morals.
ReplyDelete@jennifercoffey that real gave the point of the difference between ssavage and civilized
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly made the Africans on Marlows steamboat cannibals?
ReplyDeleteOverall, is the trip and search for Kurtz worth it in the end?
ReplyDelete@lukeingle society will always adapt off of the bigger countries instead of the smaller ones.
ReplyDelete@cameron what a great connection, everyone has such an interesting opinion on Kurtz
ReplyDeleteWhat is the scale in which we judge people on whether they are civil or savage?
ReplyDelete@jennifercoffey Kurtz may have been raised in the upper class, which could very well be how he grew up to be how he was
ReplyDelete@keazilla I think it was worth it
ReplyDelete